Posts by Frazzled UBM

183

JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 in

1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

Frazzled UBM

I am not sure there is a lot to be gained by quibbling with ISJW1961 about whether there are some good points in JW dogma - it is uncontroversial that the principle 'do onto others as you would have them do to you' is a good starting point for any moral code. The debate about Bethel pay seems to be a big distraction. The real argument is where the balance lies and to help ISJW1961 see how far the balance is weighted to the negative.

ISJW1961 - I noticed that you have not responded to my post. I know you are busy responding to others but I would appreciate if you have time if you could respond to my post a couple of days ago. I woudl be itnerested to hear your perspective ont he issues I raise. Thanks Frazzled

183

JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 in

1) many who were on the destructive path have been transformed by their teachings (this includes me who was once vicious, and presumptuous and atheistic).

2) equal monthly pay to all members of the bethel community regardless of whether they are bc members or sweepers.

this is something that still remains as an unattainable dream for the world.

Frazzled UBM

ISW61 - thanks for posting and hope you stick around.

For me it is very hard to accept your proposition that JWs are more good than bad.

All I see from my perspective is harm. I see an organisation that uses abusive psychological manipulation based on fear, guilt and shame to impose conformity and absolute obedience.

If you read the stories of people on this site you will see the damage the organisation has caused.

The organisation has a "blame the victim" approach to this and I suspect you will see it from this persepctive but if you read these stories with an open heart hopefully you will start to understand.

From my personal experience I can tell you that my sister-in-law (she committed suicide 10 years ago) would still be alive today if not for the fact the the family are under the control of the organsiation and the elders backed her into a corner so she felt she had nowhere to turn.

I would also encourage you to look at your fellow man with an open heart and yes you see a lot of bad behaviour which the media highlights but you will also see humanity, kindness and selflessness and in my view the good of humanity outweighs the bad and if you look at statistics about crime, poverty and war (ratrher than be influenced by hedlines) you will see that civilization has been improving over time - not the reverse as is portrayed by the organisation. The organisation is heavily invested in portraying the world as bad - it is one of the tactics to isolate and control. I would encourage you to look at this question with an open mind and without the organisation's blinkers - you will be surprised by what you find.

Good luck

Frazzled

20

Unbaptised son maybe asked to be in assembly ... Suggestions please!

by 4thgen in

my husband and i are divorced.

i have custody of my tween son.

i left 3 years ago on principle.

Frazzled UBM

Do everything you can to keep him away. Have you any evidence that they have spoken badly about you for no longer going. Can you get disfellowshipped? In the UK you could probably ask for the visitation dates not to be on meeting nights because going along damages your relationship with your son because they cast you in a bad light. The fact that your ex is a child abuser surely gives you traction with the courts to limit his influence?

22

Watchtower Policy Claims Another Teenager

by Lee Elder in

a tragic story of how the watchtower unduly influenced or brain washed a 14 year old jehovah's witness into martyrdom.

the real irony here is the synthetic blood that failed was a hemoglobin solution, and red blood cells are nothing but tiny doughnut shaped bags of hemoglobin.

any thinking person will conclude that if red cells are blood, then so is hemoglobin.

Frazzled UBM

A horrible story of a needy boy manipulated by this disgusting organisation to give up his life and how the legal system was complicit. The sooner the legal system recognises the organisation for the manipulative abusive charlatans that they are and stops letting them hide behind freedom of religion the better. This boy went from one form of abuse to another.

45

It's official - JWs have least common sense of any religious group in US

by slimboyfat in

some fascinating results in the latest pew research.

(how did i miss this before?

) including that jws rely on their religion the most of any group to tell right from wrong and rely on common sense the least.

Frazzled UBM

Althansius - "When asked about the size of government, 50% of the JWs favored bigger government, while 32% were for smaller government.

No doubt the Bethel lay-offs have contributed to their leftward political shift and the desire for more government among the JWs. But isn't it how they quickly turn to Satan's organization for assistance, rather than wait on Jehovah."

I also was initially surprised by this but then reached the same conclusion as you: dependence on welfare is critical for survival for many JWs and this is part of the JW business model - an implicit subsidy from the government for the recruitment work.

45

It's official - JWs have least common sense of any religious group in US

by slimboyfat in

some fascinating results in the latest pew research.

(how did i miss this before?

) including that jws rely on their religion the most of any group to tell right from wrong and rely on common sense the least.

Frazzled UBM

I found this very interesting - clicking on the trend button was illuminating - it shows that a lot of those who identified as JWs with doubts or had a semblance of independent thinking have left or been pushed out so the remaining people who idetintify as JW's are more hard core - so numbers who attend meetings, pray, rely on the religion for right and wrong and who absolutely believed in God etc. all went up since 2007, as did the proportion of those who are poor, uneducated and not white.

It seems like they have circled the wagons and become more inward looking and weeded out dissenters or possible dissenters.

They are also generally older and less have children under 18 (a very good thing). As noted, at 78%, they are the group most likely to rely on the religion (read the organisation) to know what is right and wrong. The number for Muslims was less than half (37%) with common sense being the commonest way Muslims worked out right from wrong.

I found this very interesting given how much vilification of Muslims occurs on this site based on selective extracts from Muslim religious texts.

I always felt that this way of viewing Muslims was a result of looking at Islam through a JW prism i.e. if the religion says it then the believers must believe it and act on it whereas my view has always been that it is only the extremists who act in this way and only on the basis of a very narrow selective version of the religion propagated by extremists.

61

I'm Catholic and madly in love with a Jehovah Witness...

by Luge62 in

jw
friends

we are madly in love with each other and she is in the process of being divorced.

let me make one thing clear i'm not the reason for the divorce.

she attempted to reconcile with him but to no avail.

Frazzled UBM

Luge - well that was quick. She had to make a choice and she chose the organisation. I know it hurts but better to know now rather than later. Still, this may not be the end of the story. The organisation has won round one but don't be surprised if she gets back in contact. She is probably torn between these two choices and she may come to realise that she has made the wrong choice. Wait and see - you never know. Frazzled

61

I'm Catholic and madly in love with a Jehovah Witness...

by Luge62 in

jw
friends

we are madly in love with each other and she is in the process of being divorced.

let me make one thing clear i'm not the reason for the divorce.

she attempted to reconcile with him but to no avail.

Frazzled UBM

Luge

The best thing you can do is not take any of these posts as gospel but heed the warnings in them. You are taking on plenty of risk by getting involved with a JW but it could turn out a number of ways - it could go down the horror path painted by many or it could turn out fine as it has for me and others -- read back through some of my early threads to see how scary it can get and then the later ones to see how I made progress. The key though is to properly understand the BITE (behavioural, information, thought and emotional) control the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society exercises (principally through fear and psychological manipulation) over its membership and how that can impact the behaviour of your loved one and her family. It is a truly evil organisation. Do not let love blind you to the risks and dangers. My inactive JW wife and I are very happy after knowing each other for 10+ years and being married for 5. PM me if it would help.

Good luck Frazzled

15

Grandparents take disfellowshipped daughter to court to insist on right to preach to four year old

by usualusername1 in

jw
friends

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jehovah-s-witness-grandparents-ordered-to-keep-faith-to-themselves-1.3282193 .

a pair of devout jehovah's witnesses have been ordered by a b.c.

provincial court judge not to talk about religion in front of their four-year-old granddaughter.. the couple lost their bid for unsupervised access to the girl because they insisted on taking her to worship at their faith's kingdom hall despite the repeated objections of the child's mother.. the girl is identified only as a.w.

Frazzled UBM

A good decision but still unfortunate that the court's treat the JW religion as just another religion rather than abusive indoctrination that is harmful to children. The mother obviously learnt this over time and realised the improtance of protecting her child from it. I hope in future that courts can see through the freedom of religion dogma and recognise that some so called religions are harmful to children and that children need protection from the indoctrination they practice.

38

A nuclear war take place and a 1/3 of the world population is wiped from the face of the earth.

by James Mixon in

how many of you would return to jehovah, wt?

better yet, how many jws would walk???.

i do believe it will happen one day....

Frazzled UBM

"I do believe it will happen?" Please spare us your delusional thinking. We survived MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) during the Cold War and with every year that has passed since then the risk of nuclear war has diminished.